Kaptured Chat

vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

Here's a little navigation problem I used to give to my flight students.....

I used this to teach them that we live in a Lambert Conic Conformal world, not a Mercator world.... give it a try

It really is simple but some just won't see it.

Here is the given:
Fly 3 legs exactly 500nm each
The choice of headings are 090, 180, 270, 360 (E,S,W,N)

At the end of the third leg you must be exactly where you started

solve.... Rolling Eyes

good luck and let me know if you need the resolution

vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

Don't get it....

To easy? To hard? No pilots here?

would of thought there would be a couple of takers....

If anyone cares pipe up and I'll give you the solution

Dutchman · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 9064 Location: Hooterville

Flying the legs given with starting point X being at any given point on the Equator, heading 090 points X-A, heading 180 points A-B, heading 270 points B-C, heading 360 points C-X (point of origin).

The Lambert Conic Conformal is good for limited area charts like the GNC charts, or the NGS topo maps. But over a wide area including areas south of the equator, it becomes distorted.

These problems give me one of those headache with pictures thingies. you know, makes you think. I don't have a lot of brain left for that.

vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

the correct solution is as follows:

At the equator the earth is 25,000 plus change miles in circumfrence.

At the north pole it is 0 miles in circumfrence.

At some function of lattitude (aprox. 87.2N) the earth is 500 miles in circumfrence.......

so

Start 500mn south of 87.2N Fly 360 then 090 then 180 and you will be where you started Very Happy

I used to get furious with my flight students because they became complacent using small sectional charts they did not appreciate that we do not live in a Mercator world..... (probably easy to do with less than 100hrs in a 172N... that is a small slow world)

hence the man who claimed the shortest distance was a straight line was in error... shortest distance is a great circle.

vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

you all will have to excuse me just got home from hospital a couple of hoours ago still wicked groggy.

the shortest distsnce between two points is a straight line is what I meant to say and it is still a flawed thesis

the shortest distance between to points is a great circle

sorry for any confusion.

Dutchman, sorry for the headache, I believe your solution would of been four legs

Advil for everybody on me

T-bone · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 742 Location: DE

This would be a good trivial question for an ATP student perhaps. Key word, (trivial). Even so the ground speed would have to remain constant to arrive at the EXACT same place. Of course that depends on time to climb, winds aloft, TAS, GS, My Good!
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vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

Airspeed alt. are all exstrainious (sp) factors....

the given is 500nm

it does not matter if it was in flyer 1 or a G-5 .... 500nm is still 500nm

T-bone · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 742 Location: DE

As a CFII/ single/ multi engine land AND ATP. I understand the question. It just doesn't matter in the real worls. But it is fun at a party!
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vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

As a fellow CFI you must realize how important it is to get students to think and understand fundimentals... and they don't.

T-Bone I do not know if you are still curent (I am not as a result of cancer) but how mant studnets today are proficient in the E-6B or a CR-3... not many.... start thoughing breakers and watch them fall apart... then break out a couple of instrumewnt covers and they are done

was far different when I or we came up... I bet I had 25hrs partial pannel before I went for my checkride

Love black boxes, but fundimentals rula and always will

T-bone · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 742 Location: DE

Of course I understand. I was requested for instruction by many a syudent, from private pilot to C-141 pilots. Not because I was easy but because I taught. Easy ADF was my moto. The FAA made things SO complicated.. It sucked the fun out of it. I had a plan for all problems and students loved it. I actually made big bucks as a double I. But I knew when to lighten up. Flying was just fun to a lot of students. Hell, most of them never wanted to go into a TCA! They just wanted to take their girl friend and fly up and down the beach. A very few were more serious and I addressed those people. It's all good!
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Dutchman · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 9064 Location: Hooterville

I had nearly 5700 hours in military aircraft alone. 2100+ in the B-52, 1600+ in the KC-135, and the remainder in the T-37 and T-38. We had navigators in the bombers and tankers for us easily confused types. Laughing

Sorry to hear about your hospital visit vorticity. Myself, I had a sleep-deprived EEG today. Really fun when they start flashing that light in your face.

It turns out my solution WAS four legs. This is what happens when you go to a state college known for its agriculture program. Wink

vorticity · Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 39

Dutchman sorry to hear about the EEG, hope all goes well.

I think I have spent more time in the tube the last couple of years than anyplace else.

I caught a rare adrenal tumor called Pheochromocytoma.... lost both adrenal glands to it so now it's steroids everyday to live.... but Pheo is the gift that keeps on giving as it wiped out my pancras... hello diabetes blew out a kidney... welcome dialysis and as of Mon morning I can now add a mild MI to the list. 28 pills a day leave me drooling and I'm only 46......

For someone who thought I would catch a cumulogranite this is the slowest way to expire that I can imagine

All this and it only cost a few personal relationships, a lifes savings and 100k in credit, now I wait for the third of the month for the eagle to shit...... but I haven't lost my sense of humor

Dutchman · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 9064 Location: Hooterville

Boy, I thought that I was in bad shape. At least you have kept your sense of humor, which believe me, is very important.

The EEG is a routine test that I have regularly. I had a brain tumor removed two years ago. Then the radiation and chemo. I was stage four and given no chance. But here I am. I do have epilepsy as a result. Easily controlled, but the medicine makes you dumber than a bag of pig manure.

My flying career ended when I suffered two heart attacks in '95. I was 43. I soloed when I was 16. That's a lot of flying years down the toilet.

I take 12 pills a day, but it could be a lot worse. Never lose your sense of humor. That will keep you going more than anything.

T-bone · Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 742 Location: DE

Dang!

No flying is ever down the toilet! It is a gift.

Sorry to try to discombobulate you. You have more on the ball than I thought. My apologizes.
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Dutchman · Joined: 17 Jul 2005 Posts: 9064 Location: Hooterville

What I meant is that the flying years ahead of me were gone, down the toilet.

I still miss flying. I still dream about flying. I always will.